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The discussion kicks off at the 8:10 point.

JEREMY MAGGS: Recent statistics reveal that firearms remain the leading weapon in violent crimes, significantly affecting the alarming rates of homicides and assaults throughout the nation. What are the underlying causes driving this troubling trend? Additionally, are there any new strategies emerging to combat gun-related violence in our communities?

To gain insights, there’s no better expert than Adèle Kirsten, the director of Gun Free South Africa. Adèle, we appreciate you joining us. Can you shed light on the recent crime statistics published earlier this week regarding firearm-related crimes? Are things getting worse?

ADÈLE KIRSTEN: Unfortunately, the situation is not improving. It’s vital to recognize that even minor reductions or stabilization in crime rates occur against an alarmingly high backdrop. Gun-related violence shows no sign of decreasing. While some crime types may show slight reductions, daily gun violence remains relentless.

The Medical Research Council’s data released in early October indicates a slight decline in overall femicide rates, yet there’s a troubling increase in men using firearms to kill their female partners at home. This trend is deeply concerning.

Another alarming trend is the rise over the past two to three years in the number of women murdered in public places. Clearly, there are changing dynamics in gun violence that specifically target women. It’s essential to remember that the majority of shooting victims in South Africa are still young men—a statistic that remains unchanged.

JEREMY MAGGS: Adèle, one significant issue here is the role of illegal firearms. I assume these contribute substantially to violent crime and create significant challenges for law enforcement.

ADÈLE KIRSTEN: Precisely why addressing illegal firearms is crucial for the South African Police Service (SAPS). The increasing availability of firearms endangers everyone and complicates police work. When responding to situations like domestic violence, cash-in-transit heists, or home invasions, police expect the assailants will likely be armed.

Read: SA’s police are losing the war on crime

It may seem redundant, but data shows that to curb gun crime, we need to restrict the circulation of firearms in society. The weapons used in these crimes—known as “crime guns”—are often illegal, despite being previously owned legally. They come from thefts and loss incidents within the state, from individuals, and the private security sector.

To effectively reduce gun-related homicides, it’s crucial to cut off the flow and accessibility of guns across all sectors, rather than focusing solely on recovering firearms. While recovery efforts are essential, they alone won’t solve the issue.

JEREMY MAGGS: Let’s explore this upstream strategy. Is the challenge found within the effectiveness of gun control laws or their enforcement?

ADÈLE KIRSTEN: It’s a combination of both elements. Beginning with enforcement, South Africa has a robust legal framework, once considered the gold standard for gun legislation two decades ago. This system regulates the user, firearm type, and possession conditions.

While the law has strong points, it’s over twenty years old and has loopholes that the wrong individuals exploit to obtain multiple firearms. Additionally, enforcement remains weak, requiring enhancement in both aspects.

Read: Owning a gun offers some safety, but risks run high for users – expert

During the 16 days of activism against violence towards women and children, it’s noteworthy that our gun law allows police to confiscate firearms in domestic violence scenarios, though we see little consistent implementation of this. This is not only attainable but vital for saving lives.

JEREMY MAGGS: So why is this not being enacted?

ADÈLE KIRSTEN: Several factors contribute to this. A primary issue is officers’ lack of understanding regarding their authority at the station level. A more intricate problem is the widespread perception that such issues are personal matters where police should refrain from intervening.

We’ve heard from women that when police arrive, they’re often told to resolve it within the family or seek counseling, when in reality, officers should be confiscating the weapon.

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There are even instances where, despite a court order via the Domestic Violence Act demanding the removal of a firearm in the issuance of a protection order, police have failed to act, leading to tragic consequences.

JEREMY MAGGS: It’s astounding. How can a victim be advised to seek counseling while facing a gun? Adèle Kirsten, Gun Free South Africa is a well-respected advocacy organization.

You have been championing this vital cause for some time. When you bring this information to the authorities, how do they respond, and do you find that response satisfactory?

ADÈLE KIRSTEN: Jeremy, we’ve noticed significant changes in willingness to engage. Just a few weeks ago, we met with the minister, including public health experts, trauma surgeons, and state mortuary representatives, to provide a comprehensive overview of gun violence in the country beyond just law enforcement insights.

There’s an apparent openness to discuss and address the critical issues we’ve highlighted.

We need to target three pivotal areas: reducing gun circulation, enforcing current laws, and bolstering those laws. While this journey will be lengthy due to multiple crises, we’re heartened by the progress being made.

The challenge, as identified in the latest crime statistics, is that three months is too short a period to evaluate effectiveness. Initiatives like the establishment of specialized firearms units have encountered significant difficulties due to institutional degradation.

While we can provide information and recommend actions, the ultimate responsibilities concerning budgeting, capabilities, and training reside with the police. Hence, we have a long road ahead.

JEREMY MAGGS: Definitely. As a closing remark, I would appreciate your candid opinion on the ramifications of inaction. If the current circumstance persists, what could be the long-term implications for society and the economy?

ADÈLE KIRSTEN: The fallout is tremendous—incurring public health costs reaching billions.

The losses amount to billions in lives, job opportunities, and income, deeply impacting families as well.

In our work with families in the Cape Flats, we observe the medical repercussions stemming from such conditions, along with the constant fear that drives parents to instruct their children to stay indoors to avoid potential gunfire. This is a distressing reality they face daily.

Read: Guns or yoga? City crime fighters in South Africa and Colombia

High levels of trauma inevitably obstruct functionality and social interactions. We are confronted with an epidemic, and a cohesive governmental response—not just from SAPS—is urgently needed to tackle this crisis.

JEREMY MAGGS: Thank you very much, Adèle Kirsten, for your insightful contributions. She is at the forefront of Gun Free South Africa.

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